Friday, April 04, 2008

Bizarroland.

Oppositionists To Stand Trial For Exposing Ex-KGB Agents

Radio Liberty, 04-04-2008, Yerevan Two opposition supporters will go on trial soon for allegedly exposing two undercover agents of Armenia’s National Security Service (NSS) present at a post-election opposition rally in Yerevan, prosecutors said on Friday.

The NSS officers were exposed in Yerevan’s Liberty Square late on February 27 during the non-stop protests staged there by former President Levon Ter-Petrosian. They apparently had recording devices on them. Those were put on display in a nearby café where the two young agents were forcibly taken by opposition activists before being handed over to senior police officers.

Ter-Petrosian and his associates claimed that they were caught red-handed while urging protesters camped in the square to take violent actions against the government with the aim of substantiating government claims that the opposition is bent on seizing power by force. The NSS denied this, saying that its employees were in fact helping to ensure the security of the protesters.

According to the Office of the Prosecutor-General, the NSS agents were recognized and exposed by Tigran Melkonian and Levon Khachatrian, former officers of the Armenian successor to the Soviet KGB who took part in Ter-Petrosian rallies. A spokeswoman for the office, Sona Truzian, said they thereby broke a written pledge not to reveal the identity of undercover NSS operatives which they had signed while quitting the feared security agency.

“That amounts to a disclosure of a state secret which is punishable by criminal law,” Truzian told RFE/RL. She said both men are currently under arrest and will soon be tried on a relevant charge.

Melkonian and Khachatrian work for a major Armenian bank owned by Khachatur Sukiasian, a fugitive parliament deputy and wealthy businessman close to Ter-Petrosian.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hayasdani tadakhazutyan ajbararutyunnere ge sharunagvin...

Anonymous said...

Nazarian,
Why are you surprised?
Don't you see that the government propaganda is using the tools
of denial which were used by the Turks to deny the genocide.
1. not only Armenians died but also Turks (not only protesters, but also policemen)
2. Armenians were planning a rebellion (protesters were planning a coup d'etat)
3. Armenians had weapons which were confiscated (the Haylour report on MArch 1)
4. Armeinans were a 5th column of Russia and the West (the protest was directed from abroad)
5. What happenned to Armeinans is not so special, it has happenned in many countries
(Haylur speculations that in any "normal country" police whould have acted in the same way)
It seems that Serzh and Robert have had good teachers and have learned their lesson well.

reflective said...

More absurd analogies. The mere attempt to equate the two clans clashing on March 1 to any kind of genocide theme exposes your destructive scare-tactics approach. First we heard about Mongol-Tatars and the cult-following danced with joy in the opera. Then it was the Karabakhtsis are usurping your land/money/rights/jobs. More revelry in the opera.

Enough playing on the divisions and exploiting emotionally sensitive topics, pushing buttons with analogies to Turks, Stalin, etc. Promoting hate helps no-one and accomplishes nothing.

Anonymous said...

reflective
there are no 2 clans, there is only 1 clan, and yes that clan used such denial/counter accussation tactics and acted as a clan and not a responsible, accountable government,

BUT I agree with you, comparing to Armenian Genocide is absurd

reflective said...

No actually, there are two clans. Clans from each of the former ruling regimes. The "HHSh" clan is no less a clan than the "karabakh" clan.

kingosamo said...

Reflective, I am reading back and forth what anonymous at 2:34 said and I do not see him equating genocide with what happened on March 1. He says "the government propaganda is using the tools
of denial which were used by the Turks to deny the genocide". And I must say I also find tactics and methods applied by RK not only in this case being very
"asiatic", or as LTP would like to call it mongol-tatar. I dont have anything particular against asiatic except when it comes to democracy.

Anonymous said...

reflective,
1.people who were killed, wounded or beaten up on MArch 1
did not belong to the HHSH clan,
they were common citizens
2. you probably didn't read my comment - I am not saying that the killing was equivalent to genocide, that's of course exaggeration,
I am saying that the same denial strategies are used - the same arguments.
You need to be blind not to notice the similarities

reflective said...

My point is that your analogy is loaded. It is meant, as LTP's rhetoric was meant, to promote division and hatred. It is not just a logical argument about how people act. I could draw analogies to LTP's hate-speeches and scapegoating to Hitler in the 30s. See my point? That yours is an analogy is clear to me. The choice of analogy is important.

And yes, I find LTP most (not solely) responsible for what happened on March 1. For me it doesn't matter that those killed were common civilians, policemen serving the state, followers of HHSh, communists or anything else.

Anonymous said...

Reflective, I don't think anon 2:34 was equating March 1 with the genocide. On the contrary, the analogy made is an effective one in that it demonstrates the similiar rhetoric used to justify violence and repression by state actors against those it sees as challenging its authority. You may balk from the comparison, but you cannot deny the similiarity in the rhetoric.


As for the matter of clans, Reflective, what is your definition of a 'clan'?

It is interesting that you equally apply it to the ruling junta and the HHSh? As we all remember, after LTP resigned the majority of HHSh-akans defected and joined the new rulers. These defecters were the same people who had been 'loyal' communists and then jumped ship to join HHSh when it came to power. I am sure that when another party comes to power that they will leave Hanrapetaken and go there. That said, who is this HHSh clan you refer to? Who are its members (that are not in jail or on the run)?

Therefore, are you not making a false analogy yourself by comparing the current clan led by Robert+ Serzik and some undefined HHSh clan? And just to remind you, Telman is dead and Vano and Grzo are on the run, so referring to them does not count. You'll have to try harder to show us what you mean by 'HHSh clan'.

Anonymous said...

REflective,
what you say can be as easily applied to what you say:
you say that Levon is responsible, therefore you disagree and offend all those who have voted for him,
therefore you are dividing the nation, therefore you are a foreign spy, you have to be tried under the new law, which Kotcharyan has proposed.
Don't you see that this kind of logic is flawed?

The RK regime has created an aparthide system, in which if you are a relative of the clan, no laws apply to you, and if you are a "common person", you are automatically becoming a second-class person, a victim of corruption and beurocratic pressures.
So RK and SS have long divided the nation, before Levon came.
This would be SO obvious to anyone who has spent some time in Armenia,
(and went beyond the downtown cafes of course)
but you don't live in Armenia, do you?

nazarian said...

The HHSh gave up their government positions in 1998.

The rats, on the other hand, jumped ship and still are in HHK. These are the same kind of people that were communists before 1991, then became HHSh-akan and now are HHK-akan. Tomorrow when HHK is kicked out, they will try to be among the party that is in power.

I don't know if this is a cause or a symptom of all the ills currently facing Armenia. On one hand, a businessman or a bureaucrat should be immune to the change in the party at the helm of the government which is not respected in Armenia. On the other hand, by simply changing their color, the same people remain at the top of the government so in reality there is no change in government.

It's a totally messed up situation and the only hope I see is to reform and make the government as small as possible. The smaller the government, the less its ability to infringe on the freedoms of the people and businesses and the less the need for a businessman to try to be partisan.

Anonymous said...

This is rediculous!
If you walk in the street with your GF, and then someone comes up,
spits in your face, insults your GF, and steals your money, you should just stay there and watch,
cause the other guy is also Armenian.
So if u try to hit the other guy,
or do something about it,
you'll be dividing the nation!
I mean, grow up, people !

reflective said...

What I mean by two clans is the same approach of politico-economic power accumulation by a relative few in society (style of governance authored by LTP, continued by Kocharian).

That Telman is dead or that Lady Hakob or Jahangiryan flipped from this side to that side is not the point.

The point is that we are not comparing Gandhi on one side to oligarchs on the other. Same approach, same results. Neither side likes to admit this, but it is true. Even LTP himself said it when he appealed to the oligarchs hoping they would join him to kickstart his campaign. As indicated above some did. He has shown no other vision for Armenia, neither as president, nor as wannabe returner.

I agree with Nazarian's call to reduce the size of government.

mayranoush said...

Reflective, you are comparing apples and oranges. The current regime is a clan. The HHSH HAD a clan WAS a clan. Past tense. Today, in the present, there is no HHSh clan to speak of.

It is on the contrary a situation where the 'rats' that jumped the HHSh ship are now on the HHK ship. As Nazarian so correctly writes, the rats will stay on that ship until it also begins to sink. Then they will go to the next ship, and the next, and the next. There is no political conviction or loyalty. They will sell their mothers for a pashton. Arturik is a paylun example of that tendency.

This lack of conviction among politicians and political elites is not limited to Armenia. It happens in all countries. It is perhaps a bit more exaggerated in Armenia where in the space of a decade you can have a card carrying Communist become a HHSh member and then a HHK member.



So, what we have today are many of the same people in power or in powerful positions as during the Levon years. Two bright examples are RK and SS...

Anonymous said...

reflective,
so is Raffi Hovanisian member of the HHSH clan?
or Jiraayr Sefilyan?
or Stepan DEmichyan (I mean he's not my presonal idol, but he's certainly nothing to do with hhsh)
or do you know what was Nikol Pashinyan doing during the HHSH rule?
He was kicked out of the university for being an opposition activist.
And the same goes many less prominent leaders,
let's people like Aram Karapetyan, Suren Surenyants or Stepan Safaryan.
Do these names ring any bells?
Or don't really know most people who are in opposition you just assume that they must be HHSH clan members.
Why don't you do some research before expressing opinions on topics that you don't seem to know well enough?

reflective said...

The Karabakh clan is called a clan not because of where people are from (there are plenty in the "clan" from Aparan, Arinj, Goris, etc).

Similarly, the HHSh clan is a coterie who stole and plundered, who now want back in as the pot to steal from has grown.

Good riddance, LTP, and other discredited politicians. The rats will take a long time to clear out, both from government as well as various opposition groups. That is part of the corrupt and sad heritage from the communist days. A heritage that neither LTP nor Kocharian had the will or desire to eliminate.

After 10 years resting in his palace, LTP tried to coax the oligarchs to his side. Welcome back. This told me everything I needed to know regarding the genuine nature of LTP to want to change anything.

This is just sour grapes + laziness among the radical opposition leadership. That there are many dissatisfied among the people, I agree - in fact I am one. But I will never follow a demagogue who preaches hate, racism and divisiveness. Enough naivete. Time to work.

Anonymous said...

i repeat that there is only 1 clan, that is kocharyan-sargsyan clan, if you tell again HHSH etc, then it means you are in the past, stuck in the past, and feeding on some past bad experience, wake up. there is no HHSH, hardly a party, and no direct-strong-tribal relationship between parties and organziations of the oppositions, it is a very loose ocnglomerate of powers, people, currents, groups, parties (often small)..this is a truly popular movement, if you are jealous and that's why you are angrily cursing LTP and his followers then go ahead and make your own movement, if in Armenia there is really democracy (as you SS lovers and supporters and constructive collaborators claim) then why don't you make your move and your way of struggle and your slogans and your "foght" instead of standing by the sidewalk and watching from far and cursing the movement of poor, underprivileged, oppressed, marginalized youngsters and students, and women and men...
funny people...they come from diaspora and teach us patriotism