Wednesday, May 28, 2008

Assaults on the opposition continue.

One of the leaders of 'Sksela' youth organization, Arsen Kharatian, was severely assaulted in Yerevan by three people. He is now in the hospital.

Here is the press release from the 'Hima' movement. (update: the initial post mentioned May 26 instead of May 28. It's fixed now.)
Մամլո հաղորդագրություն
Անհապաղ տարածման համար
Լրացուցիչ տեղեկությունների համար զանգել 093191903 (Միքայել)

28.05.2008

Դաժան ծեծի է ենթարկվել Արսեն Խառատյանը

Այսօր, մայիսի 28ին, մոտավորապես ժամը 14-ին երեք անծանոթների կողմից դաժան ծեծի է ենթարկվել “Հիմա” երիտասարդական շարժման առաջնորդներից մեկը` Արսեն Խառատյանը:

Մի քանի օր առաջ Արսենը “Լայֆ” ամսագրի լրագրող ներկայացած մի երիտասարդից հեռախոսազանգ ստացավ` հանդիպելու և հարցազրույց տալու առաջարկով, ինչին Խառատյանը համաձայնություն տվեց և “լրագրողին” հանդիպելու նպատակով մայիսի 28ին, ժամը երկուսին եկավ Վերնիսաժին հարող տարածք: Մի քանի րոպե տեղում սպասելուց հետո, հանկարծակիորեն Արսենին մեջքից գլխին հարված հասցրեցին (հավանաբար երկաթե իրով) և, գետնին տապալելուց հետո, դաժանաբար ծեծի ենթարկեցին երեք երիտասարդներ, որոնք քիչ անց փախուստի դիմեցին: Արսենը գլխի վնասվածքներով տեղափոխվեց Շտապ օգնության հիվանդանոց:

Այս ահաբեկչության հերթական ակտը մեր կողմից գնահատվում է, որպես ռեժիմի յուրօրինակ պատասխան համաժողովրդկան շարժման ակտիվացմանը և շարժման ակտիվիստներին ահաբեկելու նոր փորձ: Այս անգամ, որպես թիրախ է ընտերվել մեր ընկեր Արսեն Խառատյանը, որը հայտնի է իր քաղաքացիկան դիրքորոշամբ, ճշմատախոսությամբ, մարդու իրավունքների և ազատություններ պաշտպանությամբ, ինչպես նաև Հայաստանի ամենատարբեր շրջանակներում բարձր հեղենակությամբ: Արսենը “Հանուն Գիտության Զարգացման” նախաձեռնող խմբի անդամ է, “Սկսել ա” և “Հիմա” երիտասարդական շարժումների առաջնորդներից և ամենաակտիվ մասնակիցներից:

Կարևոր ենք համարում ընգծել, որ սույն հանցանքը Արսեն Խառատյանի նկատմամբ կատարվել է բացեիբաց և հրապարակայնորեն`նպատակ ունենալով վախի մթնոլորտ տարածել և կասեցնել համաժողովրդական շարժման ցույցերի, երթերի և բողոքների ալիքը:

“ՀԻՄԱ” շարժում
Yesterday, Ara Gevorgian, the son of the opposition HHSh party board member Gevorg Gevorgian, was severely beaten by the police on the Northern Avenue in Yerevan. From Tzitzernak:
A YOUTH BEATEN IN NORTHERN AVENUE [from a1plus.am]
ՀՅՈՒՍԻՍԱՅԻՆ ՊՈՂՈՏԱՅՈՒՄ ԾԵԾԵԼ ԵՆ ԵՐԻՏԱՍԱՐԴԻ

[08:49 pm] 26 May, 2008

Today policemen beat 18-year-old Ara Gevorgian because the latter “ventured” to step Liberty Square with the participants of “political strolls” in Northern Avenue.

As a result of sudden weather changes the strollers decided to walk at Liberty Square. As soon as policemen caught sight of the newcomers they chained the area barring their access to the Square. After seizing the front walker Ara Gevorgian they forced him into a “Gazel” and began beating him severely. Witnesses say the boy was then “thrown out” in Northern Avenue.

The exhausted boy was taken home. Ara says he hasn’t committed any misdeed.

Note, Ara Gevorgian is the son of HHSh board member Gevorg Gevorgian.

38 comments:

Anonymous said...

Lav a lav Levonakannerin vochnchatsnel a petk.

Payqar minchev verch nranc dem

me said...

Anonymous, hrjvi, jisht es anum; menak hishi vor mi or mi "sxal" ban kanes u khaytnves tsetsvatsi iravijakum. Rejim@ hertakan angam ir lakotuyun@, storaqarshutyunn u vaxkotutyunn e cuyc talis. Edqan dzer ujeri u 70% supporti vra vstah eq inch kariq ka jahel erexeqi vra hardzakvel?

Someone I believe was complaining about that hima list of "subhumans". It appears the regime and its clowns have made their own list that consists of "Levonakans"; except that the ones on theirs get terrorized, shot at, and beat up. You be the judge of what's worse.

Anonymous said...

Hargeli me,

Yerb kaghtzkegh-e (cancer) shutvanic kanxoroshes piti shut-ov veracnes (vorqan el poqr lini). Petrvarin chveracreen,Levon-i balanere cancer-i nman havaqveceen, Azatutyan hraparak-e darcrin Lktiyutian Hraparak yev patahec Marti 1-e. Levonakanneri dem payqari amenalav dsev-e dazhan u vjrakan lineln a. Nrank kaghakakirt massayin mas chen kazmoom, cavoq srtee.Shat lav a anoom vostikanootyoon-e , banak-e.
Nranq Zzveli bomzher en, nranc lideriz sksads.

nazarian said...

Anonymous, I will not allow you to spread hate. If you continue posting hateful messages, they will be deleted.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous - more precisely, just change your target of hate into SS or RK and then it is OK, or even encouraged. Just don't hate LTP, or else.

nazarian said...

Anonymous at 1:14pm, it's one thing to dislike a leader, be it SS or LTP, it's an entirely different matter to group disparate people in a group and then hate them.

I have been against grouping the Gharabaghtsi together and disliking them simply because of the bad apples among them like RK, SS and their minions. The same goes with labeling the people who support SS as fascists. Or labeling the oppositionists as Levonakan.

In addition to that, hate is a poisonous emotion that has never brought any positive results.

Anonymous said...

Like the Ch-Hayer?

mayranoush said...

Nazarian is more than justified to ban anonymous 5:29. Why should it be acceptable to call for the extermination of a group of people you don't agree with //vochnchatsnel a petk//

That sounds not only primitive and narrow minded, but also very similiar to what the Turks did to the Armenians in 1915 (in other words irank vochinchatsretsin Hayerin). So anonymous 5:29 , are you sticking to your call to 'vochinchatsnen' or can you try to be a little bit more civilized and less inclined to celebrate the violent perpetrated against those people with whom you disagree?

Or is your idea of politics to exterminate (vochinchantsel) or put an end (//Payqar minchev verch nranc dem//) to your political opponents? Stalin would be proud of you.

Anonymous said...

Do you know that they have recently started atatckign ombudsman?
Its been two days since from teh morning to evening all kinds of officials are attacking ombudsman for his last report which was released a few weeks ago.
I am not sure why they have started attacking him a few weeks later, but that can be anotehr sign that RK is back since he has openly expressed his negative opinion about Ombudsman in March.
Chief general prosecutives are telling this on TV "Unfortunally we cant execute ombudstman for thsi obviously pro-oposition report".
Just imagine what does that mean!
I hope that one day all these ppl will get EXECUTED and less punishment is NOT acceptable for them.

me said...

Aysinqn inch nkati unes "chveracreen" aselov? @st qez, pashtonakan tvylanerov elektorati 22%@ (351,222 mard) petq e veracvi? Inch xosq, hrashali plan e. Bayc du hech mi anhangstaci, RQ and SS are way ahead of you. Chnayats vor qeznic aveli barehogi u mardaser en gtnvel u @ndamen@ 8 hogu en spanel; derevs menak tsetsum, jardum, u artaqsum en. Bayc de iranc nerka tsragreric ko arajarkats plan, aysinqn genocid, mi qayl e.

Ushagrav e vor qo kartsiqov Hayastani bnakchutyan mi ahreli tokos (pashtonakan tvyalnerov) pastoren "zzveli bomzher" en u kaghakakirt zangvaci mas chen kazmum. Espes eq "araj hayastan" gnum? Espes er Robik@ u hima el Serzhik@ Hayastan@ zargacnum?

Chnayac vor jisht es, hima menak heraka elektriknern u dodinern en "kaghakakirt" mardik hamarvum. Isk ay orinak banasirakan gitutyunneri doktor, tasnyak grqeri, dasaxosutyunneri u gitashxatutyunneri heghinak, ashxarhi me qani hanrahayt hamalsaranneric
patvavor doktori kochum stacats, 6-ic aveli lezuner imacox mard@ ko isk xosqerov zzveli bombzh e u voch kaghakakirt. De inch asem, vor edpes e, Araj Hayastan.

Anonymous said...

Nazarian,

Look at it objectively, isn't your blog full of hate? Another example is the Messiah, banasirakan doctor, 15 lezuner imazox Hay zhoghovrdi arjani tagavor LTP's speeches from his campaign. Aren't they filled with hate?

Without taking into account of what you think of Serj, if you compare the two campaigns, which one had a hateful message? Be honest with yourself : just a small hint "Ov im het chi, azg-i taqanq e". I wonder which honorary doctorate taught him that.
Of the 22% that supposedly voted for Levon only 2% are his real followers, the rest are either cheated , naive or opportunists who put their bet on the wrong man.
"Hima" and "Skel a"have also shown their real faces. Either they live with the rules of the country or they will always be "bomzh" in their own country. Entirely their problem. Armenia doesn't need them.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and one other thing:

We've been hearing a lot of Levonakan propaganda like "Hancavor rejim-e ir hoqevarqn a aproom". Are these people serious or are they infected by the Pashinian Virus?Back in 1999 these same people said the same thing about Kocharian almost everyday for the next NINE YEARS! And guess what? He did his work, cut the oppositition's head off, and Aram Sargsyan is still saying "ishxanapokhutyun-e mot a", the Messiah was saying ten more days, 8 more days, five more days.

For all these levonakans I say : If you are not OK with the idea that Serge will be President until 2018, you will either become psycopaths, be in depression, or simply be the official bomzh class of the Republic of Armenia. Oh yeah and the throats will be weary by shouting hima until 2018.

Give it up already. This is NEITHER hamzhoghovrdayin nor sharzhoom, nor congress.These claims are getting stale.

Anonymous said...

mayranoush,

Don't invent words I didn't use. I didn't say vochnchatsnel . I said veracnel. And I was refering to cancer.
Nazarian, do you think the statement "Levon is the cancer of Armenian society" is more hateful than the ChHayer list or many other things you have reposted from Levonakans? Zarmanali/...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous - I said it earlier, as long as you change the object of hate to Serj or Robert, it is OK. People will laugh, exhort you, and dance around claiming freedom of expression. God forbid you make one negative comment about Levon, and the world comes crashing.

me said...

Anonymous @ 10:14PM

You didn’t say “vochnchacnel” but someone else before you did. And is it really appropriate to get into semantics when you both meant the same thing? And don't play angel now, you didn't mean just Levon, you specifically used the term "Levonakanner". Hima's list barely breaks a few hundred; yours is 351,222 long.

As for Levon. I didn’t call him a Messiah; you did. Thanks for your support. Now, all I did was dispute your claims that he and his supporters were a) zzveli bomzher and b) voch qaghakakirt. The guy and his supporters are neither; it is fine if you don’t like him, don’t support him, hate him, want to see him dead, it’s ok to criticize him, disparage him, belittle his accomplishments, blow out his faults. God knows he’s had the latter two in abundance over his life. All I’m trying to do is bring this back to a sphere where facts dominate as opposed to cheap H1 propaganda: for example, in a competition of which side is more educated or civilized, really there’s no contest. I’m embarrassed that you’d even bring that up.

It’s evident how varvats all of you are at his level of education; your leader – heraka elektrik, the opposition’s leader - - well you know better than us. And again, I’ll let you decide which was worse: LTP’s inflammatory rhetoric against his opponents, or Serzhik’s campaign of physical intimidation, injuries, and extermination against his.

me said...

"Of the 22% that supposedly voted for Levon only 2% are his real followers, the rest are either cheated, naive or opportunists who put their bet on the wrong man."
You did some wonderful analysis of his electorate, based on that familiar, tested political ol’-timer: bullshit. Would you care to do the same for the 52.82% that supposedly (your word, not mine) voted for Serzhik?

"Either they live with the rules of the country or they will always be "bomzh" in their own country."
What exactly are the "rules" of the country? And why exactly aren’t they the same as the country’s constitution and its laws? And if they are, do pray tell which laws Hima and Sksel a are refusing to live with. And please this time, use actual events and facts, and pinpoint specific laws they are breaking.

"Armenia doesn't need them."
This really angers me to no end. Who the f*ck are you to decide who Armenia needs and who it doesn’t need? Really...You are the guy supporting the morons who in your own view have spawned a country that again in your own words has 351,222 homeless and uncivilized people. And we are supposed to trust your judgment as to who Armenia needs and who it doesn't?

mayranoush said...

To Anonymous May 29, 2008 11:05 PM who wrote //I said it earlier, as long as you change the object of hate to Serj or Robert, it is OK// What you fail to realise is that this whole discussion began when Anonymous May 28 200, 5:29 hrcjvets when they beat Arsen Kharatyan. Notice he/she was celebrating the fact that a so-called "Levonakan' was beaten NOT Levon himself. He made a claim for the necessity of exterminating (vochinchatsnel) all 'Levonnakaner'.

For your information, Levonnakaner are a segment of the Armenian population. It may be a matter of debate as to whether they are 22% 25% 55% or whatever, but they are THE ARMENIAN PEOPLE!

You may disagree with them, but you cannot disagree with the FACT that they are Armenian People. They may support Levon but they are not Levon. Or can you not see the difference?

I recommend that you reflect on and limit the degree of hatred and bile you spew out towards the ARMENIANS who disagree with you and whom you glibly refer to as 'bomzher'.

As for Anonymous May 29 10:33 PM, please look at the very first post (May 28 5:29) and you will see what I was referring to. I am sorry, but I have a hard time keeping track of all you anonymouses and telling you apart....

reflective said...

Mayranush - actually the "whole thing" didn't start with the qst response to this posting. If the topic is about hate and intolerance, why don't you refer to the racism and hatred being propagated by Levonnakanner (yes they are Armenian, as are the thick-necked bodyguards, as are the Karabakhtsis, as are the supporters of Serge or Robert, as are oppositionists to the authorities who are against Levon too, etc etc).

So, as me says evidently if you single out your list of undesriables to a few hundred that is ok?? What is this?? I cannot believe that this kind of hate-mongering is viewed as a viable political philosophy.

As inadequate as the current authorities are, the more I read from the Pro-Levon minority, the more content I am that the experiment to conduct a power-takeover failde and has picked up no momentum on the ground in Armenia.

Masquerading as a democratic movement, when it is just sour grapes is unethical and undermining real possiblity for positive change.

Of course, people shouldn't be beaten for their political philosophy, but it is sad that the very groups who ratcheted up the level of hate are now complaining about the expected consequences.

mayranoush said...

Reflective, I was wondering when you would join in...I don't understand what you mean when you write

//So, as me says evidently if you single out your list of undesriables to a few hundred that is ok?? What is this?? I cannot believe that this kind of hate-mongering is viewed as a viable political philosophy.//

I think you MISUNDERSTOOD what I wrote. Where did I hate monger? All I did was to criticize anonymous May 28 5:29 for using the verb 'exterminate' vochinchatsnel to refer to Arsen Kharatyan and others who he refers to as 'Levonakans' and I reminded him that they are Armenians and proposing the extermination of political opponents is UNCIVILIZED.

Yes, Reflective, Robert, Serzh, are Armenians as are Sirusho, Hayko and Andre (Eurovision 2006, 2007, 2008). That is NOT my point. My point was plain and simple. But since you failed to grasp the simple point allow me to repeat -

DO NOT DEMONIZE POLITICAL OPPONENTS AND CALL FOR THEIR EXTERMINATION.

I write this as an individual. I am not a politician (Thank God!) and I am not a Levonakan. But if in your eyes anyone who questions the violent acts perpetrated against Armenians is a Levonakan (or bomzh as some other bloggers on this site wrote). Then so be it, what can I say. It is impossible to have dialogue with people such as yourselves.


And let's stick to the topic of the beating of Arsen Kharatyan if you please and not drag in the past 20 years of Armenian political history. That way, Reflective, you can spare us your well rehearsed diatribe of "in Levon's times things were worse" which you have made ad nauseum! Let's stick to the topic on this page which, to remind you is DIRECTLY related to the brutal beating of Arsen Kharatyan and the response of some individuals (such as Anonymous May 28 5:29) who applaud such UGLY, despicable, and uncivilized acts of violence.

And one last question Reflective, do YOU condone the violent beating of youth activist Arsen Kharatyan? Because your last comments, seen here, seem to imply that you do by arguig that they are geting what they deserve //people shouldn't be beaten for their political philosophy, but it is sad that the very groups who ratcheted up the level of hate are now complaining about the expected consequences.//

reflective said...

Mayranoush - There were lots of uncivilized comments, sadly eminating from Levon's camp. The ugly reality is that people can write (and then justify or encourage) a list of undesirables, and no one speaks out against it, but as soon as there is one comment (vochinchatsnel) that gets twisted into veratsnel, and then translated into exterminate, there is shock and hysteria.

Levon's supporters infused the campaign with hate and racist rhetoric. Others have written as have I and I won't repeat.

For the record, I of course, condemn beatings in any case, and especially if Arsen was beaten because of his beliefs. I hope that the perpetrators are found.

This doesn't change what I said, and that is that people cannot expect that there will be no reaction from those who are targeted by hate-mongerers. Look at the past few months: racist campaigning, April 24 turned into an anti-government shout-fest, the Opera sq carnival continuing by people who are simply 'anti' and not 'for' anything. Goading and pushing legal limits often results in clashes.

Let me be unambiguous with a very simple example: Mayranoush - you in ALL CAPS write about not demonizing political opponents, but you have never spoken out against the facistic de-humanization of the Ch-Hayer lists, never stated that Pashinyan is a hate-monger, never stood up against the racist invective that Levon and his supporters yelped with glee.

mayranoush said...

Reflective, I will only respond to 2 things and not write anymore.
1. If 'exterminate' is not an adequate translation of 'vochinstatsnel' could you please provide a better one?

2. You write that I have //never spoken out against the facistic de-humanization of the Ch-Hayer lists, never stated that Pashinyan is a hate-monger, never stood up against the racist invective that Levon and his supporters yelped with glee.//

First, I don't know what Ch-Hayer is - Could you please elaborate? I find it difficult to comment on or speak out against something I have not read or heard about.

Second, I find it strange that you are trying to divert attention away from the points I have raised regarding the cowardly beating of Arsen Kharatyan to draw attention to the things I have NOT done. If we are going to start holding each other to account for the things we have not done...oh dear...

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
reflective said...

My point was that when it is convenient, people put words in others' mouths.

The hypocrisy is overwhelming.

re: your questions (I note you don't answer to my comments, but anyway, no prob).
I am no linguist but maybe destroy is better.

Ch-Hayer was an idiotic list running around the internet (including here on this blog) regarding the "non-Armenians" UNDESIRABLES. Nice long post a few days ago with many many comments.

nazarian said...

Had to delete a post by anonymous for personally attacking another non-anonymous poster.

nazarian said...

The Ch-Hayer list is a list of the ringleaders of the regime. If you notice, it does not include the citizens who support SS, i.e. what some of the anonymous posters here would label as 'Serjakanner'. There is a big difference between the people who perpetrate unlawful acts and people who are supportive of a politician or a political party.

Plus, nowhere in the Ch-Hayer list it said anything hateful. It simply meant that they do not act in the interests of the Armenian citizens.

As Reflective said, it is easy to put words in someone else's mouth when it's convenient.

mayranoush said...

I am back...just had to make some dolma, mop the floors, and knit some sweaters like a good little Armenian woman...;):0!

Anyway, that makes no sense after Nazarian graciously deleted the post where I was called a Levonakin...Nazarian, while I understand and I am grateful to you for deleting it, I was thinking perhaps it would have been better to keep it.

I thought it was such a poignant example of the pathethic reasoning the anti-opposition bloggers like to peddle which basically states that if you dare to raise your voice in protest, then you deserve what is coming to you. Such enlightened thinking!!!

But it is your blog and I respect that.

Also, thanks for the info about the Ch-Hayer. I had missed that.

Anonymous said...

tashnag and serhantagan sriganer like anonymous can only be happy by this asiatic, barbarian, terrorist culture of beating, shooting, eliminating, terrorizing, etc, it is tashnak and kocharo-sergo fascist culture, if you encourage it, one day you will be the victim of your own creation...as for other philospohers like tashnak reflective, you miss the point as always, this issue is very much the issue of how armenians want to live and see their country, and not LTP or his bodyguards, or his speeches, etc, come out of your 19th century ottoman mentality for once and start thinking like a respopnsible and diginified citizen...but oh pardon me, i forgot...u r a diaspora tashnak who is confused where is his "HAYRENIK" and came to give lessons to armenians about which is good and which is bad...

me said...

"I am no linguist but maybe destroy is better."

ex·ter·mi·nate
to get rid of by destroying; destroy totally; extirpate: to exterminate an enemy; to exterminate insects.

For Christ's sake.

"So, as me says evidently if you single out your list of undesriables to a few hundred that is ok?? "
Speaking of putting words in others' mouths. I'm saying that "Levonakanner" is too broad a category, and calling for their vochnchatsum, as the first anonymous very clearly did ("Levonakannerin vochnchatsnel a petk") is appalling. Hima's list, which doesn't call for anyone to be beat up or exterminated (fine, destroyed), includes a very specific list of very specific people who in their view are engaging in activities unbecoming of Armenians. Again I ask you, what's worse? Their rhetoric or Serzh's and his clowns' actions?

"This doesn't change what I said, and that is that people cannot expect that there will be no reaction from those who are targeted by hate-mongerers."

"This doesn't change what I said, Arsen had this coming." I'm sorry, you might be a fan of semantics but I'm not; there are no two ways to interpret this. What I'm understanding from what you wrote is if you're going to criticize the authorities, you're going to be called an a) hate monger and b) deserve to be beaten up.

Or perhaps you're like the authorities that you're so valiantly neutral on as you claim-- you say one thing but mean quite another.

me said...

And generally, all your comments boil down to this: "But in LTP's time < fill in the blank >", or "LTP is a hate monger and a racist". Forget the fact that Gharabaghcis aren't even a different nation let alone a different race. Forget the fact that it's hard to run a campaign based on love and compassion when your opponent has all the makings of a tyrant.

He didn't stir up hate as you falsely and yet repeatedly claim; the intense dislike of the ruling party was already there, and he exploited it just like any good opposition party candidate would (See Obama, Barack and Clinton, Hillary for examples). He didn't create an atmosphere of distrust toward elections; it is already permanently ingrained in the electorate's mind (and yes, to save you some typing time, the '96 elections played their role.) Even Serzh's most deluded supporters will agree that at the very least, a 2nd round was absolutely necessary.

LTP's campaign, from the outset, was based on the urgent need to gain two things: restoration of constitutional order and dignity, and the de juro recognition of Arcax's freedom, and he campaigned on how he was going to achieve these goals. You see what you choose to see.

reflective said...

me- the record is there, I will not repeat it. There was nothing about Levon's campaign that had anything to do with dignity. But you are free to interpret or hallucinate as you wish.

Hopefully hate-inspired (and inspiring) Levon is once and for all a thing of the past. Time for the opposition to find new and non-discredited leaders.

As I have stated in the past, I condone any malicious actions of Kocharian and of Levon (and not just rhetoric of Levon), so I am glad to see a new administration in place. Time to move on.

Anonymous said...

Agree with reflective. byebye Levon and undignified and anti-constitutional ways.

Anonymous said...

One more thing: while I never liked the authorities over the past 17 years, the reintroduction of Levon, memories of how bad a president he was and how much he despised the Armenian people has made it easy for me to be happy that Serj and Tigran Sargsyan are now in charge.

me said...

Reflective, you think there's a "new administration" in place, and I am the one hallucinating? Serzh was a communist, a HHSh-akan, and now a HHK-akan. He's held prominent position in every administration since independence. Most ministers retained their positions; Tigran Sargsyan came over from the Central Bank where he'd been busy running the currency to the ground. Hovik Abrahamyan and Armenchik switched positions...In other words, there isn't a single new thing about this administration. But as you said, hallucinate as you wish.

Find me one so called "opposition" candidate who ran based on his undying love for Robert and Serzhik. Of course every opposition candidate played on the people's exasperation and dislike of the ruling party and its clowns. Why is it so hard to get that most people hate Robik's and Serzhik's guts, and their dislike wasn't "inspired" by Levon's rhetoric?

"As I have stated in the past, I condone any malicious actions of Kocharian and of Levon (and not just rhetoric of Levon)"

Freudian slip? ;)

reflective said...

One not need "love" Serj or Robert to not hate or inspire others to hate.

Regarding differences in administrations, I think Kocharian's was similar to Ter-Petrosyans...as much as the current one is to Kocharians, but anyway.

And as far as the population's feelings, I am quite confident that the exasperation, disgust, and feeling of being fed-up with Levon exceeds that of Robert's or Serj's, but what is your point anyway?

me said...

My point is that Levon didn't create or stir up hate, RQ and SS did that with their actions and policies.

For example, the group of citizens who were kicked out of their decades-old residences in order to build Hyusisayin poghota without proper compensation don't need Levon's speech to hate this regime. Groups of small and middle businessmen who are regularly priced out of the market b/c they have to pay tarrifs 5 times that of regime-approved oligarchs don't need Levon's speeches to hate this regime. The families whose members die in mysterious circumstances and no proper investigation is done don't need Levon's speeches to hate this regime. Citizens who see illegally armed regime-approved criminals turn streets of Yerevan into their duqyan with impunity, and then see Zhiro Sefilyan locked up for 1.5 years for a weapon he received from a regime puppet as a reward during the Gharabagh war don't need Levon's speeches to hate this regime.

Really I could write a book about why people hate RQ/SS. And Levon, just like any opposition candidate in any country, used this rampant dissatisfaction of the ruling party to his advantage. Look at AXQ's or old friend Vahan's pre-election speeches; they are filled with similar rhetoric. AXQ was even threatening to break the brains of those who wouldn't let people come to his rallies...Miraculously, this wasn't interpreted as "ishxanutyun@ brnazavtelu koch". Anyhow...

Listening to you it is as if Serzh and RQ are these loved, revered, and respected figures leading Hayastan depi paytsar apaga, and here came that malicious Levon thwarted their plans and instilled Armenians with hate toward their benevolent leaders. Of course Levon is a similarly controversial figure; and if you think that Serzh didn't exploit this hate you're kidding yourself.

Anonymous said...

Hi "me"

Its surprising how good you diagnose situation but make strange conclusion.

The same we can say that Lenin had nothing to do with revolution since workers class were hating bourgeois

The same way democratically elected Hitler had nothing in building Aryan self-perception

The existing hate and amoral abuse of hate are two different things. Yes, you are right within last 15 years majority of population were nothing left but to express hate. But none - even VM in 1996 - did not use this negative energy for political manipulation as LTP did in the last months. And this manipulation closes any opportunity in creating democratic prosperous Armenia since divides the nation into us and them. And when the nation is divided into us and them then any provocation of this type "Lav a lav Levonakannerin vochnchatsnel a petk" will lead to the mutual hate like this tread shows. And none will remember who the provocation started - may be an azeri, may be a kid, may be KGB agent or sksela member?

me said...

As I said, LTP, rightly or wrongly, exploited that hate to his advantage. I urge you to read what I wrote before making leaps. I just don't agree with these characterizations--he instilled hatred, he created hatred, he stirred up hatred...It was already there, 10 years in the making. Did he exploit it? Absolutely, but that's what he's supposed to do as the opposition candidate. We can make subjective comparisons and say VM didn't manipulate the negative wave, but that really isn't based on any facts. HHSh was just as villified, the campaign was just as personal...

According to OSCE, 87% of Armenians said that they think most, many or some Armenians are afraid to express their views. That's what creates an us vs. them mentality, the idea that there's a privileged class, the idea that the government and its clowns enjoy impunity, the idea that if you speak out against the government or for human rights you become a persona non grata who deserves to be beaten up or arrested, the idea that the people's interests and opinions are completely ignored... I mean Serzhik admitted as much with this plan to create a public chamber and have the people have a say in how the republic is governed.

To exploit the unpopularity of a criminal regime for political gains is one thing; to call for the physical destruction/extermination of people who supported Levon is quite another. There are thousands of very decent, very civilized, very educated people who actually own homes ;) that supported him; to call for them to be "vonchnchatvats" and "veracvatc" regardless of the inflammatory rhetoric of the candidate that they supported is an outrage. I don't know why can't agree on a simple thing like that.

Ժիրայր Թորգոմյան said...

Քոչարյանասերժական ռեժիմի համար, պարզվում է, գիշերային մղձավանջ է դարձել հունիսի 20-ին կայանալիք հանրահավաքը:
Արտոնե՞լ, թե՞ չարտոնել այս հանրահավաքը. այս
հարցն է, որ հանգիստ չի տալիս Սերժին ու նրա շրջապատին: Եւ քանի որ նրանք
գիտակցում են, որ հանրահավաքը, միեւնույն է, կայանալու է, անկախ նրանից`
իրենք կարտոնեն այն, թե` ոչ, ռեժիմի ներկայացուցիչները, յուրաքանչյուրն իր
մտավոր հնարավորությունների չափով, ելքեր են առաջարկում:

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